Tony Godfrey and Mawen Ong in conversation
by Facebook messenger August 2022
Normally I begin by asking the artist to select eight of their works including early work to discuss. However, Mawen Ong, gallery director of Mo space and an artist in her own right, felt it impossible to tell the story of Mo space in less than fifteen exhibitions (and images.) Many more images – and of higher resolution – can be found at the newly renovated website of Mo space.
Tony Godfrey. Good Afternoon Mawen. You are about to open an exhibition celebrating 15 years of exhibitions at Mo space. Wow! What an achievement! Which do you feel: excited or exhausted after all that work?
Mawen Ong. I am excited to see the works come together in a new way, and in a different context. As you know eleven of the works, were past works that were already shown with us, and a few of them are part of our small collection… I am also panting with 15 years of non-stop art shows at Mo. it is, as if I have been running a cross country marathon, from which I have gained a lot of stamina by now. To be honest, I thought this passion project was just going to last for 3 years tops.
TG. Well, I hope you manage another fifteen years! Can you tell us why you are showing old works? What do they have in common? Will there be new works too?
MO. I was telling Gerry Tan about the works we have collected from various shows over the years. We got them because they were special to us. In each case the artist made the work for their show, and somehow they used the space as part of its subject matter. Gerry said, “you can make a show out of that”. And it turned into an anniversary show because the timing was just right. We turn fifteen years this August. Gerry went on to suggest adding a few more artists, to play with the idea of making works that can have a dialogue with the space. 15 artists for 15 years. I, on the other hand, delved into the gallery archives to look for other works that artists have made in past shows that can fit into the framework! We certainly had a few Wow! moments along the way.
TG. At the same time you are making a web site for an archive of Mo-Space. I have found archiving my Tuesday in the Tropics for my website very exhausting. Archiving fifteen years of exhibitions must be far, far worse!
MO. I agree Tony. But anything worth archiving is hard work, but worth it. 15 years with over 200 shows! Not to mention the number of works. The archive took more than 5 years in the making but the team did it, their dedication to the work was there.
TG. You must give me the exact website address for my readers so they can visit you there!
MO. The new website will take the place of the original website. Same address Tony, Www.mo-space.net It will be live by August 27 when we open the show
TG. Will there be a work by Gerry in the forthcoming show? And also works by Roberto Chabet and Nilo Ilarde? They are the artists I especially associate with Mo – all three make site-specific works.
MO. Yes, We are exhibiting the work Gerry Tan made for us back in 2013, This is not Mospace. It’s a painting of the gallery space with a projected video of the space within it. We named the show after this work! We are using a work of Mr. Chabet that he exhibited in the first show of Mo-Space. A photo of the last fluorescent hanging from the ceiling that was used by the carpenters before they turned over the space to us. Nilo Ilarde’s work will be a surprise. He should tell you about the work when we open!
TG. Brilliant! I promise to review it on my September Tuesday in the Tropics! But let’s go back to the first show. I talked with Gerry Tan about the genesis of Mo space in the interview with him on this website. Mo space was meant as a sort of replacement for the shows or seminars on art that Roberto Chabet held in the alternative art spaces in Cubao and which were the basis for discussion with artists. Correct?
MO. I don’t think it can be seen or thought of as a replacement for the spaces where Mr. Chabet used to hold his seminars (such as Future Prospects). Fifteen years ago after these spaces closed, I decided that it will be a good idea to open a space, and a larger one to host the shows that were happening then in Cubao, of which there only few people who visited or were even interested in.
I think of it more like passing the baton, a continuation of a place where we could host art shows from the same community, and discuss stuff. But I don’t think it can be seen or thought of as a replacement for those alternative art spaces.
TG. You were offering not only another space but one in a very different type of area. Cubao, where many artists then lived or worked, is pretty chaotic, run down, whereas your space was in BGC Bonifacio Global City – a spanking new area of upmarket apartments, restaurants and shops. Your space is on the second floor of a large shop for modernist and contemporary furniture – very elegant, very neat, somewhat expensive. Did that ever seem ironic or paradoxical? – having been to many artist’s studios in Manila – and other alternative spaces – they are often small, and rough and ready.
MO design (Mo space is on top floor)
MO design (inside)
Entrance to Mo Space
MO. Where art is produced and where it is finally shown can often be seen as paradoxical – if one judges it based on the external packaging. White walls, shiny new lights. However, there are a lot of incredible ideas going on in those ramshackle studios. But I understand where you’re coming from, from Cubao to Bonifacio High Street, aside from the distance, they are very different worlds. I was aware of that back then, the uncertainty of making an art space, to show vanguard art shows in a new city that was an old fort but was on its way to becoming a new business centre. Why not? Mr. Chabet and Gerry and Carina Evangelista (a visiting curator friend from the US) understood the idea. Any new space in the scene was and is still welcome; the more different the better. It was just time to reinvent the circle with regards to how art can be shown or where it can be seen. Back then, the main art circuit for the shows were the galleries in Megamall. That format was very interesting, like other spaces in the mall they had big shop windows. That gave access to the public. They could see the works!
Mo space opened with 140 square meters for just art. My designer furniture brands next door helped pay the rent. Therefore, I didn’t have to worry about that side of the business. To this day, it is still the main patron and sponsor of Mo-Space!
I have nothing to paint and I’m painting it. Curated by Roberto Chabet 6.8.07
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2007-i-have-nothing-to-paint-and-im-painting-it
TG. Were the works in first show site specific? Did many people come to the opening? Did you serve wine and canapés? Can you remember? Over the ensuing 15 years did being in one of the more affluent areas mean collectors came in and sometimes bought works as well as furniture?
MO. Mr Chabet helped us set the tone for the space with the first 3 inaugural shows. The first show was about painting. the second was about photography and the third one which Nilo Ilarde curated was about drawing. A lot of curious people came in, mostly artists and friends, and some avid art collectors who wanted to see what was going on. They used to have a disclaimer about seeing the shows at Mo-Space – “Hardcore”. We were frugal and we only had simple barbecue and beers only for each opening. We spent our small budget for writer’s fees, and printing small catalogues for each show. We made a website and learned to document each show and back them up! Thanks to MM Yu. She helped us through our baby and toddler years as an art space.
You would be surprised to know that Mo space is like a speakeasy in that building. None of our furniture buyers know there is a gallery in the building, and it was just a different world for them when they happen to walk in. Many of the art citizens are equally surprised that Mo-Space and the designer furniture shop in the building are run by the same people.
I don’t know if speakeasy is the right term. Makes it sound like an illicit place selling alcohol of sorts. Maybe it is more like a portal to a different and unexpected place in the building.
TG. I like the word “speakeasy”! it sounds exciting!
Chabet is normally presented as a conceptual artist. It may surprise people that he organised an exhibition on painting. But I am sure it was no surprise to you! In the next exhibition the one on photography there were fifty-five artists. How many of them had studied under Chabet at UP. UP (university of the Philippines) then had a more conceptually orientated programme then the other art schools such as UST
SHOOT ME: Photographs Now. Curated by Roberto Chabet and MM Yu. 22.9.07
https://https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2007-shoot-me-photographs-now
MO. Those shows with 40 or 55 artists were like a round-up of his students across different batches!
TG. You were an ex-student of Chabet too?
MO. Yes I was, I met Chabet during his Cubao teaching days. That first show- I don’t know what to paint, and I am painting it – as a painting show is about re-thinking painting – a very conceptual bent on painting.
TG. How would you describe his teaching?
MO. He asked me a leading question when we first exchanged mobile numbers. (And after I enrolled is the first Other Matters art seminar) He asked me, why are you here? What did you want to learn?
TG. What was your answer?
MO. I said I always thought that one day I would become an artist, a painter. But I never really know what I should paint. Ha ha ha.. The conversations didn’t stop for the next 5 years.
TG. You became an artist but not a painter. Can you show me an example of an early work? For example, can you tell about the work you showed in the first show: letters to the departed.
MO. It was a rather sad work and seeing it again makes me remember that I was grieving my mom when Mo space opened. The work was about how I could deal with memories, and words I would have wanted to say to someone who is gone. Or how does one make sense of a someone’s absence in terms of forever. The letters are cut out of my mother’s blanket, she was using that when she stayed over in my home. The letters form words, and words into sentences.
Mawen Ong. Letters to the Departed. Lightboxes (5 parts) 16 x 22 in. 2007
Shown in I have nothing to paint and I’m painting it 6.8.07
TG. Do you sometimes regret giving up so much time to the store and the gallery?
MO. One of my first works in the first other matters end of seminar art show, was a canvass wrapped in various balls of yarn. When the show opened, Mr. Chabet asked me to let go of all the yarns (while the canvass was hung on the wall) and all the yarns bounced out of the canvass and the strings were all over the floors. We were all just having fun.
I don’t have regrets at all. I spent a lot of time running the business and running the gallery and raising a family. I made a lot of valuable friends in the art community along the way. I gained a teacher. What more can I want? Absolutely no regrets. I would have regretted it very much if I had closed Mo Space within its original “appointed” 3 years.
TG. So the painting show challenged what painting could be, likewise the photography show clearly challenged what photography could be or how it was presented. The third show held the next year was on drawing… can we say that challenged what drawing could be?
No title (other drawings) Curated by Nilo Ilarde. 16.2.08
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2008-no-title-other-drawings
MO. Definitely Tony. We think of drawing as meticulously drawn images, but this show allowed us to think a lot, lot more than that. For example, Felix Bacolor’s pile of saw dust in the show are actually mongol pencil shavings, accompanied by the small heap of pencil lead. Or Gerry Tan’s large “drawings “ of scraggly lines that was made through David Griggs’s skateboard. (An ink tube was attached on the bottom of the skateboard and David used his skateboard to go back and forth) This was one of our favorite shows at Mo space
TG. Why?
MO. Because the show went beyond all our ideas about traditional drawing.
TG. Did it expand on ideas about drawing suggested by Chabet in his classes?
Or did the space and event suggest new departures?
MO. Most of the artists were already doing work on their own, and they have a strong background on conceptual thinking. I would say that the space plus the curatorial concept of the show gave everyone the opportunity to do their “why nots”.
I also think that regardless of circumstances, it will be great if artists would use any opportunity to create new departures in their ideas.
TG. I have to agree! The “why nots” were of course often the sort of thing a commercial gallery would not be keen on! the unsellable or apparently unsellable. It looked like everyone had fun!
MO. We never know how much fun we were having until you look back at those times and remember.
TG. The fourth show you have chosen is a one-person show by Louie Cordero. Was this the first one person show you did at Mo? what proportion of shows have been one person?
MO. We had the most group shows in the first year. The ratio differs depending on a lot of factors. Group shows happen when there is a good idea that comes up and it works well with us! The absolute horror show of Louie gave birth to a lot of monsters that we all love. He combined painting with sculpture!
The Lead Brothers. In Absolute Horror. Louie Cordero 28.7.08
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2008-absolute-horror
TG. I used to know Robin Klassnik of Matt’s Gallery very well. He used to be very involved in the artist’s work – discussing it often and making suggestions. Are you like that or do you let the artists get on with it?
MO. I can say that most of the shows at Mo space, I leave everything to the artist. It’s like a let’s surprise each other kind of relationship. One of them will say that they want to sculp out the paint of the walls, I say, Okay. Sometimes I would ask them in advance just to know if we should prepare to strengthen the ceilings in case they want to hang something. I do wish I can do more pre show studio visits but I instinctively feel that they need space to finish their works!
TG. In what ways was Louie’s show different from what he would have done at a commercial gallery such as West or Silverlens? Can you tell?
MO. Louie being Louie would do what he thinks is best, and suited for the space. A show such as Absolute Horror would sell well these days. But that show was 2008, almost 14 years ago! I remembered returning the lead brothers sculpture unsold and with a broken foot. And worrying how to take care of the other monster sculptures in the backroom.
Tony, we may have started out as an art space that showed many works that are not easily compatible for a collector’s home, art for art’s sake as they used to call it. However over the last 8 years, we find ourselves selling more and more works. Art has slowly but surely become a prized acquisition. There is a growing number of art collectors that are choosing very intelligent art works too because they are learning a lot from the artists, from books, from travels. By the way, doesn’t that makes us a gallery on a “commercial” bent like our contemporaries? All of us in this art market scenery, are part of the eco system that help generate interest in contemporary art.
TG. In the same year Nilo Ilarde made his first show with you. Did he ask to show or did you ask him? How does it normally happen?
MO. I have a good memory of how this event came about. It was not by chance at all. One day, Mr Chabet told me, “I have a schedule to make a show in your gallery, but instead I would prefer to have Nilo make a show instead. I’d like to see what he comes up with.” The rest is history. Nilo has made 5 shows with us in the last 15 years, and I hope he continues.
What Do Objects Want? The Lives and Loves of Objects. Nilo Ilarde. 13.9.08
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2008-what-do-objects-want-the-lives-and-loves-of-objects
TG. The sixth show you have chosen is of or by Chabet. Did Chabet bake the bread himself? The bread rolls must have been very stale by the end of the show?
Roberto Chabet. Bread. 13.9.11
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2011-bread
MO. The bread idea came from his show in the late 70s (I think) at the ccp. He painted them pink and was part of a work. He decided to use the same kind of bread, “monays” to make this show. I helped him source them as he was very particular that it should come from a sari sari[1] store in UP where he used to get them. We soaked them in varnish to keep them for a whole month.
TG. Why the mirrors? Did he tell you?
MO. Yes he wanted 14×14 inch mirrors. The mirrors reflect the object placed on it. Perhaps he wanted to explore the duality between the object and the reflected.
TG. Was the work preserved? can it ever be made again?
MO. Unfortunately not 
I only have a cast metal monay as my souvenir and the mirrors somewhere.
TG. And what about the next show by Lani Maestro? I assume all that bamboo has long since been used elsewhere!
MO. Yes we borrowed those beautiful fresh bamboos from YOLA Johnson. There is a lot more to this show than just the bamboos and the performance of making sounds from them. That is the analog part, and the digital part were the sounds collected from various neighborhoods, and from nature. They were part of a sound collection that you could listen to from laptops and ear phones in the project room. It was an experiential show.
Digital Tagalog. Lani Maestro in collaboration with Poklong Anading. 30.6.12
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2012-digital-tagalog
TG. This had a strong performative element, but it is rare for Mo space to feature performance. Correct?
MO. had a few performances that accompany a work. A more recent one is during a group exhibition in the gallery back in 2017, named Process/ Meaning.
In that show was the first iteration of the first cloth for the Venice Biennale project of Gerry Tan from the weaving sound in Miag-ao Iloilo. On the last day of the show, Gerry organized to have some performers who were music graduates from UP college of music, with Felice Prudente conducting the sound performance using non pitch wooden instruments. The sound was from the performance was transcribed by Fe Prudente into sound notations that Gerry Tan made into colored patterns for weaving by an Ifugao weaver.
PROCESS/MEANING. Curated by Gerardo Tan. 9.9.17
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2017-mospace-x-process-meaning
TG. You obviously like it when people experiment in your space and discover something new!
The next show chosen is “Do you believe in Angels?” which I curated. What can I say but that it was great fun working with you? I have an enormous collection of postcards of old master paintings including many of angels. These were interspersed through the exhibition as a counterpoint to the works by living artist from here, Singapore (where it was also shown) and the UK. It also looked especially good because just when we started installing I had to deal with a. difficult phone-call and Geraldine Javier took on the installation – and she has a really good eye. It was a light hearted show with a serious subject – belief. We did a survey of people attending and, yes, most people did believe. Maybe one day we should do a “Do you believe in demons?” show – I have some good little demons tucked away in my postcards!”
Do you believe in Angels? Curated by Tony Godfrey 8.2.14
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2014-do-you-believe-in-angels
MO. I wanted to say that I enjoyed that show especially because guests were asked the question if they believed in angels or not. We had a few amusing answers but sadly I cannot recall them anymore.
TG. I remember one: “My mum says I am one”
MO. Ha ha, yes. And to ask myself the same question, I might not be one but I believe in them.
TG. Looking at Annie Cabigting’s re-conceptualisation of Martin Creed’s light bulb turning on and off reminds me of attending the opening of Creed’s show. It was organised by Matthew Higgs and we all met for drinks on the street at night and eventually noticed a light in a building nearby kept going “Off” and “On”. Did you let them inside for Annie’s opening?
The lights going On and Off. Anne Cabigting.21.6.14
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2014-the-lights-going-on-and-off
MO. That must have been amazing, that you saw the actual show of Martin Creed! For Annie’s show, our guests were walking in and out of the space, but they were careful to not be where the flashing lights were.
TG. Drinks and food have normally been enjoyed on the landing outside the gallery anyway. Do you sometimes. ban drinks from the gallery itself?
MO. Oh, we never ban the drinks in the gallery. But in the design store, yes we have to.
TG. The next show chosen Pardo de Leon. it isn’t the sort of show I associate with Mo. It is like a regular painting show! I wish I had been to see it myself, to see how well painted they were.
Meeting rivers. Pardo de Leon 15.8.15
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2015-meeting-rivers
MO. Yes, I have a deep feeling for the paintings of Pardo de Leon (aka bubbles) and Elaine Navas. Before I met them, I used to go back and forth to SM megamall to look at the big painting shows that Mr Chabet curated in the big exhibition area of the 4th floor wing. I spent long moments looking at the strokes, the colors. I usually felt funny but in a good way. There were layers of colors, and the compositions were not typical, there was abstraction and also figurative elements, and light and colour. Then I eventually met both Bubbles (Pardo de Leon) and Elaine, and we have all become close friends for many years to this day. So aside from the fact that they are such talented painters, their works have become personal to me.
It’s hard to separate art and life, I guess.
TG. For some people certainly, you being one of those who can’t – and probably, like myself, wouldn’t want to separate them. It isn’t what we call a “day job” that that stops at 5.00PM when you go home.
MO. Yes. It’s a passion project. It starts at 5pm and over the weekend, and ends when Monday starts.
TG. Has anyone ever painted directly on the walls of Mo?
MO. Yes. Manuel Ocampo. He painted large patterns, each was different, then placed a large canvas in the middle of each wall! I should have included that show in my list of favorites, but there was too much to choose from!
TG. When I get round to doing an interview with Manuel I will ask him to include it
The show by the Aquilizans. Can you tell me exactly what they did? Did they take up the floorboards?
Nothing to Declare. Project: Another Country. Alfredo and Isabel Aquilizan 30.11.16
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2016-nothing-to-declare-project-another-country
MO. The show was about the migratory tribes, the Badjaos – they are nomadic sea farers. Freddy and Isabel Aquilizan were inspired by the temporary habitats that they made, how they lived and move around. They made the whole installation out of different found materials (old crates, parts of old houses) layered on top of each other and formed into assemblages.
We installed 70 or more crates on the floor, placed blue LED lights underneath, and they built everything on top of them, like temporary settler structures on top of water. There were multiple water color paintings of the sea, installed within the wooden structures, looking like windows through which you can view the sea.
TG. have they remade this installation elsewhere?
MO. Not that I am aware of ! But they are showing in various museums so I should ask them!
TG. Do many installation created for Mo get remade elsewhere, or is that a rare occurrence?
MO. The installation that Felix Bacolor made for us, 1000 wind chimes installed on the ceiling, was acquired by Singapore Art Museum. Same with the skateboard drawings of Gerry Tan .. a few more ! The show of Mr Chabet, Waves, was a remake of original waves from a show in the late 70s from the CCP[2], Nilo Ilarde reinstalled the show at Mo space. Afterwards the work was re shown at the Queensland museum for the art triennial exhibition.
MO_Space X: Waves. Roberto Chabet. 1.7.17
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2017-mospace-x-waves
TG. As we all know storing the elements of an installation is often to demanding to be possible. And it can never be the same as when first installed in a particular space. Christian Boltanski said remaking an installation is like a conductor interpreting a musical score.
MO. I agree. Many of these installations tend to also be site and context specific ..
TG. Yes, we can always get like Richard Serra and say a site specific artwork ceases too exist as art when taken for it intended location. But some installations can work again – I remember seeing a re-staging of Janis Kounellis’s horse at the Whitechapel. one of the most fantastic pieces I ever saw. – or heard or smelt or walked in – a large gallery with horses in.
TG. Are there other pieces by other artists you would be tempted to restate?
restage
MO. There are a number of works by many artists I know, that would be good to restage again. But many questions arise, would the artists want to? Would the work still be relevant? I’m just thinking aloud here.
TG. Quite. There are many issues. Kounellis rarely allowed his horse piece to be restaged – only three times I believe. For him conditions had to be just right – and the people involved sympathetic.
(for) getting Sugimoto by Gerry Tan. another example of an artist taking a work by one artist, thinking about it, adapting it, reworking it differently, making something new, albeit with lots of memories attached. though such works are only fully appreciated by people who know, for example, who Sugimoto is. But you can rely on an audience that may be small but does know who Sugimoto is. I am sure you were not besieged by people asking who Sugimoto was!
(for)getting Sugimoto. Gerardo Tan 10.8.19
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2019-for-getting-sugimoto
MO. That show wasn’t the first time that Gerry re-conceptualised the work of Sugimoto. But for Mo space he made a bigger concept out of it. When we open shows like these, the essays about the show are key to explaining such pieces. And we explain the concept too, and who Sugimoto is in relation to the work! That’s part of the territory when we host the exhibitions!
TG. In all the fifteen years you have only allowed yourself one solo show – in 2013. But have appeared periodically in mixed shows – for example in a photography show in 2017 where you showed I remember a very elegant piece of mirrors – black blank mirrors. When will you show your own work again?
Fear of a Still Water. Mawen Ong. 2016 Shown in Over Photography curated by Ringo Bunoan
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2017-over-photography
MO. I shall work harder to make art again. (LOL) Being in the heart of Mo space has answered many questions in my head, it’s like reading what others write instead of writing down your own thoughts. And lately I have been enjoying looking at the younger set of artists making such intelligent works.
But in those 15 years I have also made works for other galleries. That was always a challenge for me. A gallerist making art, but I should think of myself as an artist more often.
TG. Though you are not unique in doing the here: Soler Santos and his family show work as well as running West gallery. On another topic I recall you saying when we talked recently that you have become much more aware during the pandemic of people visiting on line rather than in the flesh – and that you have a new younger audience out there.
MO. As we know, the 2.5 year pandemic made everyone dive into the digital world, shopping, grocery, meetings. At Mo space, we continued our shows throughout the pandemic (the shows must go on) we carried on by making adjustments like extending shows that still opened through the months with pandemic alert levels that allowed it.
We started working digitally by making exhibitions like a video catalog, making it as experiential digitally as possible. There were no more openings, just installation days, (everyone gets tested before entering the gallery). Now that a big portion of the audience is back to see the shows in person, we still continued to do these videos, in the form of an artist talk. We called them Artistshots. (see at https://youtu.be/XL2vqudTRQs) It’s amazing how much you learn from the artist about their process and concept in those five minutes of video. It goes beyond the essay written for the show. It’s definitely more up close and personal.
Something of Everything in Everything. Elaine Roberto Navas 17.7.21
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2021-something-of-everything-in-everything
TG. But you still carry on showing artists of your own generation… Elaine Navas for example.
MO. Yes, she is one of few painters I know and followed over 30 years where her painting has just reached higher levels.
A song plays from another room. Lesley-Anne Cao 13.11.21
https://mo-space.webflow.io/exhibitions/2021-a-song-plays-from-another-room
TG. Leslie-Anne Cao who you showed recently is, I assume, one of the new younger artists you are working with now?
MO. Well she is not working exclusively with us! We don’t have those arrangements with anyone. But I like her work very much! I find her works visually poetic, there’s a sense of solitude in them. In her last show at Mo space, titled “A Song From Another Room” she printed photographs of empty spaces and various other images that depict a certain feeling that someone came and left. She printed them on a material that’s durable under water, turned them into books and immersed in a glass tank. They were suspended in water, pages half open. I felt the universal sense of isolation and sadness which everyone felt during the pandemic while looking at these works. But at the same time, it was beautiful!
TG. Sadly, I missed that show but I saw the next work she made where the pages of the book in the waterfall turned automatically, flipped by invisible currents of water. (see Tuesday in the Tropics 167) Like you I was entranced.
MO. Yes ! 
TG. There are, it seems, several really interesting young or youngish artists, often female, emerging. So, you will definitely have many good shows or projects to install at Mo in the next fifteen years. And I am sure we will see many more new works from older, well established artists such as Elaine Navas also. Venues such as Mo which are both challenging, and sympathetic were, are and will continue to be so crucial.